HMS Victory

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HMS Victory

Post by Ice man on 2/6/2013, 17:11

I saw on the news; Henry the VIII's flagship (Mary Rose?) is open to visit, it is located close to HMS Victory, my question is; are people allowed to step onboard HMS Victory?
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Per Mare Per Terram on 2/6/2013, 17:30

Yes, you can step onboard HMS Victory. There are guided tours onboard it.

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 3/6/2013, 09:58

During the Blitz in WW2, HMS Victory suffered bomb damage which in actual fact saved her. A lot of rot and other damage was found which would never have been found if it wasn't for blast damage ripping a big hole in her.

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by pmtts on 3/6/2013, 17:12

She had a massive rodent problem a few years ago!
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Mr Random on 3/6/2013, 17:15

BritinAfrica wrote:During the Blitz in WW2, HMS Victory suffered bomb damage which in actual fact saved her. A lot of rot and other damage was found which would never have been found if it wasn't for blast damage ripping a big hole in her.

Never knew that

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Per Mare Per Terram on 3/6/2013, 18:50

pmtts wrote:She had a massive rodent problem a few years ago!

That's a bit harsh on matelots! Laughing

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Ice man on 4/6/2013, 03:33

Amazing HMS Victory is still with us today and it must be a lot of people walking around on her decks without wearing her down. I will visit the ship some day, I also have the Imperial War Museum on my list. From what I understand, the IWM is situated at multiple locations, am I correct?

I have been watching documentaries about Great Britain's history and I have reached a conclusion; you guys invented the concept of civil war. The documentaries I am watching are; Monarchy by David Starkey and several documentaries by Neil Oliver.
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Mr Random on 4/6/2013, 03:57

IWM has four locations Two in london - IWM at the elephant
HMS Belfast on the thames
Duxford at erm Duxford I think
and IWM north in a terribly northern and provincial place called Manchester, but it's grim and cold and wet up there

if you make it to London for IWM/HMS Belfast I may be able to get beer or three into you, or pretty much anyone else in the same position

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 4/6/2013, 08:19

Per Mare Per Terram wrote:

That's a bit harsh on matelots! Laughing

I think he was referring to RM's. Razz

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 4/6/2013, 08:43

Ice man wrote:Amazing HMS Victory is still with us today and it must be a lot of people walking around on her decks without wearing her down. I will visit the ship some day, I also have the Imperial War Museum on my list. From what I understand, the IWM is situated at multiple locations, am I correct?

I have been watching documentaries about Great Britain's history and I have reached a conclusion; you guys invented the concept of civil war. The documentaries I am watching are; Monarchy by David Starkey and several documentaries by Neil Oliver.

Duxford is an amazing place to visit, it was where Douglas Bader commanded 242 (Canadian) Squadron. Duxford was part of 12 Group during the Battle of Britain Commanded by Leigh Mallory. Although Bader was a very good and accomplished pilot he and Leigh Mallory stabbed Keith Parks of 11 Group and Hugh Dowding in the back after the Battle of Britain was won. Hugh Dowding was given something like 24 hours to clear his desk. Leigh Mallory got Hugh Dowding's job as O.I.C. Fighter Command, but was killed later in the war. Keith Parks never forgave Bader or Leigh Mallory for the treatment that he and Hugh Dowding received.

Last time I was at Duxford a rather big chap tried to start an ME 109, after cranking the starting handle for quite a while and the aeroplane refusing to start, a small chap jumped up on the wing, cranked like mad and finally the aircraft coughed into life and began running much to the delight of the crowd. There was also a miniature AEC Matador in RAF colours towing a trailer that transports people around the airfield, great fun. As a matter of interest during the movie Battle of Britain (circa 1968), one of the hangers at Duxford was blown up for the film.

The Imperial War Museum on Lambeth Walk, I last visited the place 30 or so years ago and it was brilliant then, well worth a visit. The items on display is only a small amount compared to what is below stairs and out of public view. Students of history use to be able to make arrangements to visit below stairs. The museum was originally the Bedlam Mental Asylum. Many of the rich in London would pay the warders to poke fun at the inmates, hence the saying (in a noisy location) "Its like Bedlam."

Sadly I have never visited HMS Victory or HMS Belfast, I guess I never will now.

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Mr Random on 4/6/2013, 11:49

BritinAfrica wrote:
The Imperial War Museum on Lambeth Walk, I last visited the place 30 or so years ago and it was brilliant then, well worth a visit. The items on display is only a small amount compared to what is below stairs and out of public view. Students of history use to be able to make arrangements to visit below stairs. The museum was originally the Bedlam Mental Asylum. Many of the rich in London would pay the warders to poke fun at the inmates, hence the saying (in a noisy location) "Its like Bedlam."

I did my work experience there about 15 years back, and the vaults are amazing

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Strumpet on 4/6/2013, 12:32

mrrandom wrote:

I did my work experience there about 15 years back, and the vaults are amazing

How old are you? i just like asking personal questions..........

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 4/6/2013, 13:22

mrrandom wrote:

I did my work experience there about 15 years back, and the vaults are amazing

A friend of the family worked at the Small Arms Factory Enfield Lock, he was involved with the design of the SA80, he was also involved in a lot of research and development. He tried to get me a job there, but as the factory was going to close down no one was being taken on. I was sick as a parrot as Enfield Lock had one of the finest small arms collections in the world. The chap moved with his family to Radway Green, sadly he died a few years later in his late 50's.

Another amazing place although I don't know if they allow visitors is the London Proof House (Known as The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers founded in 1637) in the Commercial Road, not far from Aldgate. As a dealer I had to take a few firearms to get proofed. The Proofmaster was a Mr Bedford, who took great pleasure in blowing up substandard guns.

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Str8lolly on 4/6/2013, 14:17

Up until 2 years ago, I lived not far from the War Museum and HMS Belfast. Have taken the children to visit both several times. Well worth a visit. But expensive for HMS Belfast tickets unless you can get in free as I was able to. With the Reliant owners club and forum, I have also visited Duxford a couple of times. Now thats well worth a visit and the visitors car park is well placed.

I was a teenager when the Battle of Britain was filmed. Well remember the dog fight scenes which were done over my parents house near Northolt RAF airport. Only because one pilot did a loop and came down too low, taking the chimney off my parents house. Still have no idea how he missed the row of trees behind the house. They had a camera set up in the pig farm behind us. The pigs ate the equipment for them so the ground scenes had to be done again. This time they used the American airbase in Ruislip. Something fell off one of the planes and landed on the Central Line track. Stopping the Central Line!


Oh and the American airbase is now a waste disposal site. Says a lot doesnt it?
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 4/6/2013, 16:26

Str8lolly wrote:Up until 2 years ago, I lived not far from the War Museum and HMS Belfast. Have taken the children to visit both several times. Well worth a visit. But expensive for HMS Belfast tickets unless you can get in free as I was able to. With the Reliant owners club and forum, I have also visited Duxford a couple of times. Now thats well worth a visit and the visitors car park is well placed.

I was a teenager when the Battle of Britain was filmed. Well remember the dog fight scenes which were done over my parents house near Northolt RAF airport. Only because one pilot did a loop and came down too low, taking the chimney off my parents house. Still have no idea how he missed the row of trees behind the house. They had a camera set up in the pig farm behind us. The pigs ate the equipment for them so the ground scenes had to be done again. This time they used the American airbase in Ruislip. Something fell off one of the planes and landed on the Central Line track. Stopping the Central Line!


Oh and the American airbase is now a waste disposal site. Says a lot doesnt it?

I was stationed in Singapore when the Battle of Britain a being filmed, I wish I had been in UK and seen the filming. One of my uncles was in the Royal Horse Artillery and was one of the last to be evacuated from Dunkirk would go white as a ghost and begin to tremble when he saw the German bombers overhead during the filming.

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Mr Random on 4/6/2013, 17:14

Strumpet wrote:

How old are you? i just like asking personal questions..........

S

32 this year

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Str8lolly on 4/6/2013, 17:34

BritinAfrica wrote:

I was stationed in Singapore when the Battle of Britain a being filmed, I wish I had been in UK and seen the filming. One of my uncles was in the Royal Horse Artillery and was one of the last to be evacuated from Dunkirk would go white as a ghost and begin to tremble when he saw the German bombers overhead during the filming.

Much like my Mother who was an ack ack spotter stationed in Chatam, Kent. I saw her visibly shaking. Even in those days, my Mother had to go home each day after her stint or her Mother would go mad at her. Even an excuse that she was late home one evening because she was helping our future Queen change a wheel on a lorry cut no ice with her Mother!
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by the spice girl on 4/6/2013, 22:49

he's a 32 year old beefcake strumpet

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Ice man on 5/6/2013, 01:37

From what I have seen of Britain, which is not so much when I have only been at Heathrow and then left. I really adore the British countryside, it is very neat.

There is one thing the TV series have taught me; when Henry the VIII reformed from the Roman Catholic church to the Anglican I presume, I thought that was it, but the Catholics returned with a vengeance Henry the VIII's daughter or stepdaughter Mary wasn't happy with having prostitutes Razz running around.
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Ice man on 5/6/2013, 03:56

BritinAfrica wrote:

Duxford is an amazing place to visit, it was where Douglas Bader commanded 242 (Canadian) Squadron. Duxford was part of 12 Group during the Battle of Britain Commanded by Leigh Mallory. Although Bader was a very good and accomplished pilot he and Leigh Mallory stabbed Keith Parks of 11 Group and Hugh Dowding in the back after the Battle of Britain was won. Hugh Dowding was given something like 24 hours to clear his desk. Leigh Mallory got Hugh Dowding's job as O.I.C. Fighter Command, but was killed later in the war. Keith Parks never forgave Bader or Leigh Mallory for the treatment that he and Hugh Dowding received.

Last time I was at Duxford a rather big chap tried to start an ME 109, after cranking the starting handle for quite a while and the aeroplane refusing to start, a small chap jumped up on the wing, cranked like mad and finally the aircraft coughed into life and began running much to the delight of the crowd. There was also a miniature AEC Matador in RAF colours towing a trailer that transports people around the airfield, great fun. As a matter of interest during the movie Battle of Britain (circa 1968), one of the hangers at Duxford was blown up for the film.

The Imperial War Museum on Lambeth Walk, I last visited the place 30 or so years ago and it was brilliant then, well worth a visit. The items on display is only a small amount compared to what is below stairs and out of public view. Students of history use to be able to make arrangements to visit below stairs. The museum was originally the Bedlam Mental Asylum. Many of the rich in London would pay the warders to poke fun at the inmates, hence the saying (in a noisy location) "Its like Bedlam."

Sadly I have never visited HMS Victory or HMS Belfast, I guess I never will now.

Does the IWM have a Mosquito? That's my favorite Second World War aircraft. I have anecdote about HMS Belfast, a colleague and his girlfriend took one of these "city weekend" trips to London. Spending a few days in London. This guy, he spent one day onboard HMS Belfast. His girlfriend was minor happy about that.
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 5/6/2013, 08:11

Ice man wrote:

Does the IWM have a Mosquito? That's my favorite Second World War aircraft. I have anecdote about HMS Belfast, a colleague and his girlfriend took one of these "city weekend" trips to London. Spending a few days in London. This guy, he spent one day onboard HMS Belfast. His girlfriend was minor happy about that.

Sadly not, although I understand they are looking for one or have found one and working on her.

Years ago in UK I heard the sound of multi Rolls Royce Merlins, I ran outside just in time to see a Mosquito fly directly over my house. All the hair on my arms and neck stood up and my eyes moistened a little. The Mosquito was an amazing multi role aircraft an carried the same bomb load as the early B17's using less fuel and less crew AND suffered less losses.

I worked in London after leaving school for the Royal Mail, there are some amazing places hidden out of the way especially around the "Law Courts" near the Aldwych. The office I worked from Electra House right on the embankment I was told it was part of SOE during WW2, apparently lots of secret squirrel work went on there. The place is not only quite a large building above ground, its also quite large. underground

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Ice man on 6/6/2013, 02:24

BritinAfrica wrote:

Sadly not, although I understand they are looking for one or have found one and working on her.

Years ago in UK I heard the sound of multi Rolls Royce Merlins, I ran outside just in time to see a Mosquito fly directly over my house. All the hair on my arms and neck stood up and my eyes moistened a little. The Mosquito was an amazing multi role aircraft an carried the same bomb load as the early B17's using less fuel and less crew AND suffered less losses.

I worked in London after leaving school for the Royal Mail, there are some amazing places hidden out of the way especially around the "Law Courts" near the Aldwych. The office I worked from Electra House right on the embankment I was told it was part of SOE during WW2, apparently lots of secret squirrel work went on there. The place is not only quite a large building above ground, its also quite large. underground

The Mosquito is nice aircraft, I have liked since I was a kid. I have read about the raid when the Mosquitos attacked a location where the Germans kept French Resistance people so they could escape, the Mosquitos did something similar at a location in Copenhagen too. I want to see a Mosquito, even if I am not so into the technical aspects of World War Two, I have always tried to catch the human facet of the war. Wars are a human act, the decision to use force is a human act; quite similar as how Carl von Clausewitz said " War is the continuation of politics by other means." I prefer, if I can to catch this aspect of the war. My favorite book about WWII is; The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan, he was able to catch the essence of the war when he was able to interview participants on all levels and on both sides. I remember when I read the part when a couple living close to where a part of the airborne force was based and when they heard aircraft after aircraft taking to the skies. I also prefer the old BBC documentary about the war, the old The World at War. Even if the Cold War influenced the series , it was really good when they interviewed commanders on both sides.

Is Bletchley Park open in England? I have been thinking about those people there, how many lives they saved and never got the recognition for what they did
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 6/6/2013, 08:37

The Mozzie was an amazing aeroplane which in my opinion ranks right up there with the Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster..

These are the raids you are talking about.:-
One of the higher risk uses of the fighter-bomber Mosquito FB VI was by 21 Sqn., 464 (RAAF) Squadron and 487 (NZ) Squadron of No. 2 Group, 2nd Tactical Air Force in Operation Jericho, a mission to destroy the walls and guards' quarters of Amiens prison to allow members of the French Resistance to escape. In the aftermath of the operation the Mosquito of Group Captain Percy Pickard was shot down.

On 21 March 1945, another similar raid, Operation Carthage, again by 21 Sqn., 464(RAAF) Sqn. and 487(NZ) Sqn., involved a very low-level bombing attack on the Gestapo headquarters in the Shellhus, near the centre of Copenhagen, Denmark. The attack had been requested several times by members of the Danish resistance, but was initially deemed too dangerous by the RAF. Twenty Mosquitos were involved, split into three attack waves. They were escorted by 30 RAF Mustangs. The main attack on the Gestapo headquarters caused the death of 55 German soldiers and 47 Danes working for the Gestapo, together with destruction of the Gestapo records in the headquarters. Eight Gestapo prisoners were killed while 18 prisoners escaped. A Mosquito flying in the first wave of the attack struck a tall lamp-post and crashed into a nearby Catholic school (the French school). Mosquitos of the third wave bombed this area by mistake, killing 86 children, 10 nuns, 8 teachers, and 21 other civilians; no civilians had been killed during the main attack. Four Mosquitos were lost and nine pilots/crew members died. The attack saved the lives of many resistance workers as the Gestapo archives and organisation were severely damaged.

Then another similar raid.
On 11 April 1944, after a request by Dutch resistance workers, six Mosquito FB VIs of No. 613 (City of Manchester) Squadron made a pinpoint daylight attack at rooftop height on the Kunstzaal Kleykamp Art Gallery in The Hague, Netherlands, which was being used by the Gestapo to store the Dutch Central Population Registry. The first two aircraft dropped high explosive bombs, to "open up" the building, their bombs going in through the doors and windows. The other crews then dropped incendiary bombs, and the records were destroyed. Only persons in the building were killed — nearby civilians in a bread queue were unharmed.

Two notable daylight missions were carried out on 30 January 1943, when Mosquitoes carried out two attacks on Berlin timed to disrupt speeches being delivered by Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring and Joseph Goebbels, the Third Reich's Propaganda Minister at the main broadcasting station. The first, in the morning, comprised three Mosquito B Mk. IVs from 105 Squadron, which carried out a low-level attack on the main Berlin broadcasting station, at 11:00, when Göring was due to address a parade commemorating the 10th anniversary of the Nazis' being voted into power. The mission gave the lie to the Göring's claim that such a mission was impossible, and kept Göring off the air for more than an hour. Mosquitoes from 139 Squadron went to Berlin in the afternoon of the same day to attempt to interrupt a speech by Goebbels, and once again bombed at the exact time. However, Berlin's anti-aircraft defences were on alert and a Mosquito flown by Squadron Leader D.F. Darling was shot down, both Darling and his navigator being killed.

Göring was not amused:
“In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that?"

And of course she was used by Pathfinder Squadrons for target marking.

It was said that Mosquito Squadrons had a personal grudge against the Gestapo.


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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 7/6/2013, 17:50

Back on thread, I served on HMS Victory - not in 1805, despite what some might say - but as a 19-year old salty sea dog (!!) in 1989, when I was drafted off my first ship. I had a few weeks to learn the "spiel" and then crack on, showing groups of around 30 tourists, not all of them English speaking.

It was a wonderful job and I learned so much. Including how to entice a rather drunk WPC (who was on board for a work's p*ss up in the Wardroom Mess) down to the Lower Hold, to see the 'Golden Rivet'... I may also have done the sale with a French student some time afterwards as well. Embarassed tongue

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Str8lolly on 7/6/2013, 18:28

Yes, Bletchley park is open to the public.

As a young Tube train driver working on the Central Line, I had to work one Christmas day while my family sat down to Xmas dinner. The job was driving a train from Marble Arch to Liverpool street and back for the war office. Just in case some country didnt like their xmas dinners and declared war on us. Under Hyde park was a military base, now a car park. With tunnels leading to Marble Arch. Part of one of the tunnels now used by the public. Several tunnels and rooms used now by the underground. Under Liverpool Street platforms is still a lot of tunnels and war rooms now gathering dust.

The last station on all tube lines in tunnels has very heavy doors which can be closed from the war rooms. They are there to stop any enemy using the tunnels to get into London.

In their library, London Underground have maps showing all the tunnels and rooms and what they were used for. Unfortunately, the library has been closed to all for lack of funding now. There are even some phantom platforms only a few yards long for the military to use in wartime. These lead to rooms and stairs to the streets.

Between Stratford and Mile End on the Central line in the west bound tunnel is a small door. Go through the door and your in a cavern twice the size of Wembley stadium. No idea what the military used it for during WWII, but all the equipment was secretly removed in 1974. Its just a mind boggling cavern now.

Going to stop now, might just mention that the MI5 building in Vauxhall has its own door straight onto the tube station. Which is why you hardly ever see anyone going in or out of the building. They use the tube entrance. But then as the building doesnt exist, nor does the door?
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Guest on 8/6/2013, 08:57

Its amazing just what is under London. I worked out of Electra House near Temple Underground station, it was said Electra House was part of SOE. Electra House was massive above ground and quite large underground. The sub basements were very spooky places.

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Ice man on 8/6/2013, 14:47

BritinAfrica wrote:Its amazing just what is under London. I worked out of Electra House near Temple Underground station, it was said Electra House was part of SOE. Electra House was massive above ground and quite large underground. The sub basements were very spooky places.

The SOE, they did dangerous things. I don't know much about them, but that comes with the territory, I suppose.

I watch a documentary about Edinburgh; there is almost a city under the city. Used as a shelter during the war. It looked spooky,

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Mr Random on 8/6/2013, 22:14

A mate of mine worked for royal mail, he claims they maintained an archive underground somewhere in London with duplicates of everyone's passports & driving licenses

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Str8lolly on 8/6/2013, 22:53

Mr Random wrote:A mate of mine worked for royal mail, he claims they maintained an archive underground somewhere in London with duplicates of everyone's passports & driving licenses


The royal mail has the largest underground rail network in Europe. Its bigger than the London Underground. For most of its life its used automatic engines and only transports mail.

It is true that before computers, duplicate paperwork was kept for passports and driving licences etc in large underground vaults. But that was years ago and long before the private company running the DVLA and passport offices took over.
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Re: HMS Victory

Post by Mr Random on 8/6/2013, 22:59

this would've been mid to late 80s he was a cadet at the time

went on to do some amazing stuff

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Re: HMS Victory

Post by matelots armpit on 21/6/2013, 21:49

Back in late 1991, I and the rest of my Ships' Company had the pleasure of having a sit down buffet on the decks of the Victory. Fantastic evening was had by all, though in November, it was a tad chilly!

What struck me, well actually my head struck the deckheads on numerous occasions, was just how low the deckheads are (deckhead aka ceiling to all you landlubbers!). Being 6'2" tall, I guessed the average height of Jack Tar back in 17 something odd, must have been a good foot shorter!!

I just want to get back to Pompey sometime now to see the Mary Rose in its new ship hall. I actually went to Portsmouth back in 1982 whilst I was still at school to watch it being raised, but on the day it was supposed to rise again, the weather turned crap, so we had to go home!

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